illusion collar/ cesar milan debate

i was reading about illusion collars and i came across this link about the collar and cesars methods.... its proving to be quite interesting reading

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=61758

Thats very interesting!! I was actually thinking about trying one if the dogmatic didnt work!! Dont think I'll bother now!

how much of the debate have you read hun... its like they say... any training tool can be dangerous if used incorectly .....

the debate is quite interesting actually, very long lol... but a good read if you can be bothered to read it all .... these are serious doggy people lol....

ooooooooops didnt realise there was 7 pages!! Will read the rest tomorrow!!

:nhy: its just an illusion

this is what one person had to say in favour..... the repllies are interesting too
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Hi. I'm new to this site and I don't want to come off rude but I wonder how many of the people that are complaining about Cesar Millan have actually watched or sat through one of his seminars. While I agree that positive training is usually the way to go, there are some situations where a different approach is needed. What Cesar preaches is exercise, exercise, exercise. He is not physical with a dog unless the dog is extremely aggressive and poses a threat. Claiming space in your house by calmly asserting your presence is not a bad idea with dogs. He does not yell or hit a dog.

I came on here because I was looking for advice on the Illusion head collar. I am purchasing this collar as a last resort. I have a 9 month old German Shepherd. The dog is great in the house. All the positive training has done wonders in terms of his obedience and and behavior in the house. The problem is on walks, he is completely out of control and extremely aggressive.

I have worked with 'positive' dog trainers and have spent over $1000 on private lessons. Like I said, this has been successful for his in house obedience but does not work on walks. Since day one when I got this dog, he has been red-zone towards other dogs, he even flips out when he sees another dog on TV. The 'positive' methods the trainers have tried on walks have all failed. Luring the dog or distracting the dog with treats when another dog is approaching does not work. MY GSD has absolutely no interest in treats when another dog is around. I've even tried bits of steak. Confidently holding the collar up high and briskly walking past the other dogs doesn't work. Stopping and changing directions does not work. Positioning myself between my dog and the other dogs does not work. In fact these suggestions from my dog trainers have gotten me bit twice.

When the walk starts, my dog is calm and walks right by my left side when there is no distraction but once there is another dog (now progressing to bikes and even strangers), the dog immedietly red zones. I've tried normal buckle collars, harnesses, head collars, choke collars, pinch collars... nothing works because they all operate around the dogs most powerful part of their body.

MY GSD is now 9 months old, I walk him for 1+ hour every single night since I got him and consistantly try to work on the techniques the trainers have given me along with the books and DVDs I have bought. I have had 0 success and I am extremely patient. And I have had large, stubborn dogs in the past and never had a problem like this.

Now I am going to try Cesar's collar as a last resort. How is Cesar's collar any different from the 'humane' head collars my trainers have preached about? Those collars wrap around the dogs muzzle and at the top of the head, exactly where Cesar's collar sits (although they don't constrict). When the dog pulls on the head collar, the dog's whole head yanks and twists. My trainer insisted that the dog will not pull on this collar and that was completely not true. I found this 'humane' collar to be quite cruel actually. And my dog refused to wear it. I tried it on 5 walks... by the 5th walk, he was diving and rubbing his face into the concrete to try to get the collar off. What do you do then? Yank the dogs head off the ground by his face?

I'd like to know how many people on here criticizing Cesar's methods actually have problem dogs? My first 2 dogs didn't need this method but this dog clearly does. I've worked consistantly for 6 months with this dog and his leash aggression has only gotten worse.

So I am going to try the Illusion collar and will see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my experience on here. I'm not saying its right for every dog (or even most dogs) but in extreme cases, sometimes you have to try different methods.

:ezcs:

thats tons to read again
i'll do that tomorrow

lol, i on page 6 *phew*

this is a good reply to the dog lunging and growling... this is another option for me lol

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My dog Sam used to be terrible on the lead walking past other dogs. He just couldn't do it. Like you I followed all kinds of advice trying to distract him with treats but once he was fixated on that dog he was deaf and blind to everything else. I recently used a remote spray collar and this basically stops him in his tracks and puts him off doing what he usually does..lunging growling barking etc. I only had to spray a few times (it doesn't hurt him) while at the same time saying leave and now he just walks past every dog. It is like a miracle. I think it was just a bad habit habit he had got into and he enjoyed doing it. Now I don't even have to put the collar on him. A simple 'Leave' command is all he needs. Maybe it would work on your dog.

Dog classes were no good for my dog either..it was just all too much for him.

Just read it all the way through. I think people talk bollox. Can they not see that all dogs are different and Cesar treats them all differently? I do get wound up by these people.

I cant see the problem with an illusion collar either, if used properly. Not all dogs will respond to "good boy, have a treat" whilst red zoning.

Agree Paula a good trainer trains the idividual dog not just the problem, its the so called trainers that think one method works for all dogs.
we have an advert in local paper from a dog behaveurist who turns anyone away that turns up with a check collar or choke chain as she thinks these are not required :wqq:

i agree.... i think the illusion collar is a good idea too...much better than slipping a choke chain on and yanking the dog about...

every dog needs a different method of training ... no training method is wrong,its whats right for the dog